But go back out and yell to the kids to get off your lawn. You went for poly80 after you sent letters stating that there items are not firearms….come on now when does it stop ✋. View as Grid List. Now, in a little over a month, may the incoming President direct ATF that braces are not permitted? so why can’t I have one of those stocks for my hi-power?….always thought that was a worthwhile addition…. I will guarantee you that the first order of business for every employee of ATF and every other federal and state agency is to keep the agency going and as well funded as possible. From December 18, 2020 to January 4, 2021 the ATF is accepting formal comments on the proposed rulemaking entitled Objective Factors for Classifying Weapons wit Stabilizing Braces.The proposal sets forth a series of criteria that would be used to evaluate firearms as either pistols with attached stabilizing braces … Either way they will shoot your dog…I’m surprised PETA hasn’t gone blitzkrieg swamp donkey on them yet. Merry Christmas to gun owners! ATF pistol brace ban 2020? Did anyone expect anything different to happen? … .. so i’ll just give this to you straight….. So an AFG would make it illegal? Shouldering the weapon constitutes a redesign of the weapon from a pistol to a short barreled rifle, SB-15 the one that started it allPhoto:Opticsplanet.com. Makes sense to me. #1 or #2 won’t cut it. Don’t put the pistol brace to your shoulder or it might make the weapon subject to NFA rules and regulations. Errr, answer. Article first appeared on Ammoland.com. No offense, but fuck that. This is the same strategy they used last time, and it worked. The possession, manufacture or transfer of a pistol brace would most likely be treated the same as any other violation under the below section of 18 USC Section 922, that would result in a Felony conviction with up to 5-10 years in a Federal Installation and a massive fine. While it would seem a few items are not open to interpretation, most are, and most are not clearly stated in any meaningful way. I’ve never even seen an ATF agent. The orcs are at the outer ring: https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/the-siege-of-minas-tirith-or-how-to-turn-fudds-into-gun-rights-supporters/. I mean, isn’t increased control of large, heavy pistols the entire purpose of pistol stabilizing braces in the first place? Eighty-nine members of Congress sent a letter to Attorney General William Barr and acting ATF director Regina Lombardo yesterday. Just look at the NFA database. “I agree with the ATF in that this is an attempt to trick the system.”. It is far better to not pass laws that either won’t be followed or won’t be enforced because this delegitimizes those institutions responsible for setting the rules. So that the firearm industry and the public understand exactly what is and is not kosher when it comes to a pistol brace. ATF Backs Down on Pistol Brace Ban and Registration. I have one in the drawer next to me as I write this, as a low-tech silent backup for shooing away noisy ravens in the 60-high tree outside my window. In Stock. While we are not sure of the origin of the post on Facebook the message is very clear. Mitch McConnell? Why would I care what numbers are on it? Brandon Maddox January 4, 2021. Resist or don’t complain. A very well known firearms lawyer stated that the ATF will likely be issuing […] It seems like law enforcement arguing “I didn’t actually see him speeding, but his engine is capable of speeding, so he should be guilty of speeding”, Totally accurate. They can’t be bothered with your little pistol brace issue. If you purchased that pistol brace in order to give your firearm a more balanced, more aesthetically-pleasing look and feel, then at this point you may as well ditch the arm brace and put a functional shoulder stock on it. While we are at it the hearing protection act is a good idea but the better one would would to dump the NFA and GCA and all the rest of that garbage. After the stolen election was over everything just got quiet. Instead of the legislature actually creating laws, they simply give authority to a giant government agency to interpret a really broad law and to enforce it as they please.”, Clarence Thomas and another Justice have expressed interest in clipping the wings of bureaucratic over-reach, and maybe this could be the way to do it…, “He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.”, I used to work for a state agency that had, during my tenure and before, been useful to state government, but had fulfilled its original purpose in 1939. His superiors dubbed him "King of Useless Knowledge" a title that he still loves to this day. In March 2017 the BATFE once again changed their stance this time for the positive when they sent a letter to SB Tactical stating that the previous administrations position was incorrect and that they had a change of heart essentially. Slingshots are illegal to make or sell in Massachusetts. One of the great universal constants of life is that the ATF cannot be trusted to be consistent. ..\/……………./ Which, of course, we’ve always rationally known is true because criminals don’t care about these inane laws anyway. Now a manufacturer has been distributing a brace that was apparently never submitted to ATF, and ATF reacted to that. Thanks Trump, Diane Feinstein approves. If they decide not to look at it that way, what’s to stop them from deciding buffer tubes are stocks? Thus most owners of these items appear to have thumbed their noses at the rule. When times are good, most people will comply with the law, even if they don’t agree with it because the threat of punishment. Yes, yes it is. That joke is on us. Was this firearm built with the intention of using it as a pistol or as a rifle? I agree with the ATF in that this is an attempt to trick the system. 2014: ATF rules against shouldering braces. Then we can reminisce about the good old days when bump stocks were considered a hill to die on. Steven Macherey started this petition to State Senator Patrick Testin and 2 others. I’ll take 10 please. As for ASCII art? They were SBRs, short and sweet. Brandon Maddox January 4, 2021. Do I get to have heavier pistols, or am I limited to what a 98 pound weakling can handle? And long as the end user adds NOTHING by way of an accessory of any sort. SB Tactical SBM4 Pistol Stabilizing Brace AR-15 Pistols. You know, for our benefit. ATF’s claim is that it’s simply detailing in a clear, objective fashion the metrics by which it does, will, and has judged pistol braces. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives in August issued a “cease and desist” order to halt the production of the Honey Badger AR pistol… Serious question about pistol/optics/intent: To my understanding, ar pistols can have slings on them and can be fired with a cheek rested on the buffer tube without any of the peculiar “reclassification” going on. An accessory that was legal for years was suddenly called out by White House and through series of instructions from then U.S. Attorney General Jeff Sessions to the Justice Department was made illegal in less than six months. This is exactly why they HAD to end pistol braces. Mechanically both are pistols (but then so are most submachineguns.) After burning the constitution, trying to become a dictator. The braces have been refined into a stock that has a remote resemblance to a brace. you will all cave, even the site is moderated and controlled by ATF and FBI. But we don’t want to walk on egg shells, we can’t be expected to have a law degree just to understand rulings, and we don’t have the time or resources to attend continuing education classes just to stay on top of ATF’s incessant shifts of opinion. They ain’t on leashes, my friend – but they sure as hell want us to be. Don't Let The ATF Ban Pistol Braces. Where do you stand on the pistol brace issue? Look we will even waive the fee. (.(….(….(…./.)..)..(..(. Dems introduce new federal 'assault weapon' ban that includes pistol braces. There were well over 500K of these items, and very few were turned in or destroyed. It’s objective! Weve all been conditioned by TV and movies to act like sheep. So ANY AND ALL handguns could EASILY be banned by how vague & expansive the ATF’s incompetently written regulations are written. 3. Depending on how you define rifle, it could be either, both or neither. Sources note that the number of privately-owned AR-15 pistols with pistol braces … What kind of morons are at the ATF? Basically, what type and configuration of firearm the rogue bureaucracy gives its blessing for adornment with a pistol stabilizing brace, and what type it claims is just a short barreled rifle in pistol clothing. The ATF, evidently, is not indicating that the mere presence of a brace on a pistol automatically converts the firearm into one under the purview of the National Firearms Act (“NFA”). 2A, no infringement! All this talk about the requirement to shoot AR pistols with one hand makes me wonder… Is shooting a “pistol” pistol two handed also illegal? In my opinion having owned an MP5 variant and shooting it as a pistol while I waited 366 days for BATFE to finish the paperwork just flat out sucked. One day this might be The truth about Slingshots ? Looks to me like they’re fixing to ban anything that resembles an SBR…. They just keep it on the down-low for fear of being ostracized. This is why we need OBJECTIVE, WELL-WRITTEN CRITERIA to define what a stock is and isn’t to them. What we should be doing is fighting to remove restrictions on short barreled rifles and shotguns. That’s why there paying people off like Biden and Swalwell so they can slowly get what they want. With everything going on the past 4 years? In Stock. Now a manufacturer has been distributing a brace that was apparently never submitted to ATF…”. That being said I personally like the various guns that have capability to have a pistol brace attached to them but I just won’t take the gamble that once again some politician trying to get better polling numbers making an accessory outlawed without due process. In the meantime, ATF is assigned responsibility for Federal firearms enforcement…it is, like most law enforcement agencies, answerable to politicians. And yet the 2nd and other BoR Amendments find themselves infringed. Bans assault pistol stabilizing braces that transform assault pistols into assault rifles by allowing the shooter to shoulder the weapon and fire more accurately. . In was back in 2013 when inventor Alex Bosco came up with the pistol brace and after letter back from BATFE about the legality of the newly created device Bosco found himself in partnership with Sig Sauer and the SB-15 pistol brace was unleashed on the world. There would appear to be a path to determination of legality for licensed firearm manufactures through submission to ATF. Or…both? Maybe. FYI Why not? The proposed ban applies to certain pistol braces, which had been previously blessed by BATFE as lawful accessories. Only a jury gets to decide the merits and reach of a law as it relates to a particular case, based on “common sense” alone. This being said, now I will state something that will be very unpopular, though it is the truth. But that is not the important point; braces would not exist without the compliance of ATF and their read of the brace as not an SBR. Let me start off by stating that restrictions on short barreled rifles and shotguns are asinine. Look, I registered my, homemade, untraceable firearm and put a serial number on it! Gen. William Barr demanding ATF refrain from drafting the … Joe just does what china wants It’s as simple as that. And citizens affected will have to sue to the SCOTUS. In regard to the standards they are rewriting for arm braces-related to caliber & a host of what seems like a never ending list of issues that can make a pistol illegal or a short barreled rifle etc. ATF must have gotten to TTAG as well. This list, they say, is not exhaustive. “I know you don’t want to hear this, but in the grand scheme of politics POTG are a minority voting bloc.”. Republican Florida Rep. Matt Gaetz sounded the alarm about a possible ATF pistol brace ban in June, and multiple pro-gun groups have decried the bureau’s decision. The fact that we are even discussing this is disgusting. Hopefully we can get the NRA to rid itself of Wayne and his gang so it will actually have leaders that fight for our rights instead of their bank account statements. 2. The proposed ban applies to certain pistol braces, which had been previously blessed by BATFE as lawful accessories. The History of the Brace . . However, ATF is absolutely attempting to crack down on what it will consider a pistol… They literally justify it as freeing them from a life of slavery, subjugation and/or servitude. In was back in 2013 when inventor Alex Bosco came up with the pistol brace and after letter back from BATFE about the legality of the newly created device Bosco found himself in partnership with Sig Sauer and the SB-15 pistol brace was unleashed on the world. Products [14] Sort by: Quick View. The past 2+ years have demonstrated actively not complying gets you whatever you want plus protected hero status. A manufacturer brought a concept to ATF and ATF approved it under a skillful read of the NFA…but with the proviso that this was not an across the board approval, but rather to be a review of each item submitted to ensure it follows the concepts laid forth. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives in August issued a “cease and desist” order to halt the production of the Honey Badger AR pistol… There’s literally one known case), then I move to remove SBRs from the purview of the NFA. Nice ploy, “So when the government grows tired of its armed citizen it now has great records of where to go to round up the guns.”, That has the stink of plausibility about, depressingly… 🙁. Can ATF hold an “amnesty” for only one kind of NFA firearm, and not all? This is likely invisible to them now, because times are relatively good, but they’re in for a nasty surprise when times turn bad and they try and lean on a populace that doesn’t believe in them. Yeah, I can (crooked row uneven spacing) punch whatever numbers they want. Probably have to grind the sights off to make it legal tho. They ARE on leashes controlled by the same elites who don’t have time for politics, but control EVERYTHING….. You have a lot to learn about the world…. Let me explain while we still have a constitution! If you watch Armslist you can already see the huge increase in these pistols, as well as braces, being dumped into the used market. Separated in 2002 as a SSgt (E5- in the USAF), he chose to stay in the frozen north of Alaska and currently works as an Emergency Management Specialist combining his love of chaos with preparedness to ensure people know how to survive disasters. This device secured a gun to the shooter’s forearm and subsequently enhanced both safety and control. We’ve pulled all the essential info together to walk you through the brace’s humble beginnings, how AR pistols got involved, and the long-standing feud with the ATF over what you can (and can’t do) with a brace… The NRA-ILA notes that the ATF’s recategorization of the Honey Badger Pistol marks a significant department from their prior policy, which has been in place since 2012, and which recognized pistol braces as stabilizing devices for firearms. If an increase in short barrel rifles with pistol braces didn’t cause problems, then how could they possibly justify continuing with SBRs as an NFA item? My understanding is that a non-approved brace is not necessarily illegal, just that no determination has been made by ATF as to whether they consider it a brace or a stock. A recent post circulating Facebook may just highlight things to come. I’m fine with deterministic definitions ( X length, Y weight, etc). Pretty much like my sawed off shotgun argument above. He authored the previous “Assault Weapon” ban. If you are one of those right wing militia hate crime people then no, you need to do the time! People never wake up until it’s too late. \….)….)…. A recent post circulating Facebook may just highlight things to come. Be sure to check our list of banned firearms, guns and parts in each state for more information about restrictions in your area.. AR pistols and similar firearms have been popular ever since the advent of the pistol … But is a rifle caliber bolt action silhouette pistol impractical? No, they’re already reporting to Biden/Harris. On Dec. 23, ATF announced it was withdrawing a notice and request for comments regarding the stabilizing AR pistol brace. Or, perhaps, are they part of a group – some inside government, many outside – who firmly believe that they are, and SHOULD be, holding OUR leashes? Well, yeah but ATF doesn’t have the power to do that. You have heard nothing about unelected bureaucrats in the deep state acting on their own without guidance from anyone but other unelected bureaucrat over the last four years? Biden hates guns cause China hates us having them. They would need to come in as single stack mag well sporting rifles, I hope that isn’t where this is going. I know you don’t want to hear this, but in the grand scheme of politics POTG are a minority voting bloc. This is somebody in the ATF making assumptions and not reporting to anyone. A few scant years ago, there was no such animal as pistol braces. The ATF seems to be re-evaluating previous determinations and contradicting information previously provided to manufacturers and consumers. “Any person who intends to use a handgun stabilizing brace as a shoulder stock on a pistol (having a rifled barrel under 16 inches in length or a smooth bore firearm with a barrel under 18 inches in length) must first file an ATF Form 1 and pay the applicable tax because the resulting firearm will be subject to … I feel like a lot of gun owners like complying. Just give them the pistol brace, and they will let us keep our pump shotguns. Perhaps wiser heads can. Would this also apply to something like Thordsen Customs cheek rest kits, as the leaked letter seems pretty specific about “arm braces”? They like confronting people at ranges to inquire about things that aren’t any of their business just to see if you share their fetish for compliance. You’re telling me that ATF’s fancy new “Objective Factors” document is comprised almost entirely of “we’ll know it when we see it” sort of generalizations? “Slingshots are illegal to make or sell in Massachusetts.”, And New Jersey, at least in 1980. Initially designed by SB Tactical as a stability-improving device for wounded and disabled veterans, pistol braces are an ideal accessory for AR-15 pistols and pistol-grip shotguns due to the increased control, improved aim and additional support they provide. Jeremy strives to collect objective data whenever possible, and looks to write accurate reviews that reflect the true user experience. So what happens if you make or acquire one after the letter was posted? They are convinced (and they have substantial evidence to support that conviction), that they can influence elections, make subjective and inconsistent rules to suit their whims, engage in wildly disparate “enforcement” of their stupid “standards”, write legislation (as “advisors” to legislators), and get the result they want. We can be our own worst enemies! If you're interested in what else the The Captain's Journal has to say, you might try … He explains that even during very conservative administrations, like President Trump’s, some do “try to make it more difficult to acquire things that shooters need and gun owners need, for safety and for the unique circumstances … Well, instead of making you scour the internet, we made things easy with a top-to-bottom look at pistol braces and the ATF. I mean it’s written so completely incompetantly you would need a team of lawyers just to make a determination. Maybe. Then will immediately come the ban of AR/AK pistols as they are already setting it up. “Objectively,” only not so much. The ATF makes clear that their pending re-evaluation of AR pistols with stabilizer braces will be on a “case by case basis, ” as the agency “[evaluates] whether a particular firearm configured with a stabilizing brace bears the objective features of a firearm designed and intended to be fired from the shoulder, and … © COPYRIGHT 2020, THETRUTHABOUTGUNS.COM. Angry politicians started crying foul over the Sig shoulder brace saga. ATF Withdrawal … Traitors who swore an oath to uphold constitution? The Roadhouse Tarp is a simple shelter optimized for hunting. Pistol Braces; Pistol Braces. Maybe. Not that a “law enforcement” agency of the US federal government would EVER act in a way that *reduces* the scope of it’s own power, but if you think that such petty concepts as “clearly written law”, “precedent”, or even “consistency” have even the slightest bearing on what the ATF does or doesn’t do, than I have some beachfront property in Oklahoma to sell you, Their claim is that they’re enforcing the existing federal law. The industry has been demanding this for a very long time. This is what happened with Bump Stocks. If a law is not clearly defined, it is not a law at all. You classify a fully automatic weapon as a weapon with a trigger pull that fires multiple projectiles, not the bump. PETA loves to steal people’s pets and then euthanize them. Note the document itself is not a ban on pistol braces … If the government is going to claim it’s a short barreled rifle, turn it into an actual short barreled rifle. ……..…../´¯/)………… (\¯`\ So, the ATF released a statement that said shouldering a pistol brace would make your pistol an SBR, which is illegal: "Consequently, the attachment of the SB-15 brace to an AR-type pistol alone; would not change the classification of the pistol … The last decade has proven beyond any doubt that SBRs — if the ATF’s contention that many braced pistols are SBRs has any validity whatsoever — are not likely to be used for criminal purposes (less than 3 percent of murders are committed with any type of rifle). Because it had a primary design function that wasn’t to shoulder? They like 922r and other bullshit. So, if the stabilizing brace is the odious accessory determining the difference between pistol and SBR, can I just replace the SB with a large rubber door stop? Exactly where are all the riots now? They look and dress in casual street clothes like you and I do. The objective factors discussed here make clear that while some stabilizing braces may lawfully be used on pistols without bringing the firearm within the purview of the NFA, that is not necessarily the case for every “pistol” because some firearms are configured or have characteristics such that they meet the … I’ll just take my chances on prison time. A little chilly out there for their activities. Shows the arbitrary nature of the ATF’s enforcement. We all know this yet we will not admit it. Eventual confiscation probably. BATFE will do what they are told. Trust me, bureaucrats do NOT consider themselves answerable to you, even indirectly. Be sure to check our list of banned firearms, guns and parts in each state for more information about restrictions in your area.. AR pistols and similar firearms have been popular ever since the advent of the pistol … If a pistol brace ban does not happen under a Trump administration, I can pretty much guarantee it will happen under a future Democrat administration. It’s one I honestly struggle with while on one hand I love the CZ Evo S3 Micro Scorpion I’ve been lucky enough to review lately which has a pistol brace, do I love it enough to spend $1000 and find out in a year or two that I can no longer shoot it against my shoulder? I once went into a local shop and encountered a whole crew examining presumably new 4473s in a back area not visible from the street. “White House orders pistol braces to be banned” Imagine clicking on your favorite news site or gun blog and reading those very words. I ignored it, along with my BB rifle…. I’m seen people shoot the unbraced ones one handed. Another example is the sawed off shotgun that is less concealable than either Keltec’s KSG or any number of legal handguns up to 12 gage none of which appear to have generated a crime wave. U.S. Rep. Matt Gaetz announced on his podcast "Hot Takes with Matt Gaetz" the ATF is crafting new rules concerning pistol braces. I was there from 1976 to 2017 and it is still in existence. The MCX pistol with a folding brace is super compact and easy to carry. Maybe Is a pistol that is ‘light enough’ no longer ‘light enough’ if you attach a flashlight? Government interference! The objective factors discussed here make clear that while some stabilizing braces may lawfully be used on pistols without bringing the firearm within the purview of the NFA, that is not necessarily the case for every “pistol” because some firearms are configured or have characteristics such that they meet the … The ATF provided a list of supposedly objective features they will consider when determining whether a firearm is considered an NFA item even when fitted with a pistol brace. Unfortunately, in full-on Princess Bride fashion, I do not think “objective” means what BATFE thinks it means. A group of Republican Congressmen is warning federal firearms regulators to slow their roll when it comes to what could be a ban on popular pistol braces. The summary of the series of events was this essentially this. Shrinking a rifle doesn’t make it a pistol. Tricking the system is not beating the system, just puts honest people into jeopardy unnecessarily. (Rhetorical question, the answer is absolutely nothing.) Pistol braces are one of the Agency’s top two concerns, along with 80% lower receivers, ... you don’t know his history. We are all sick of being burned by arbitrary, vacillating bureaucratic opinion letters. here is the REAL question. It has no force of law as per their statements. . I guess I won’t be submitting it to them for “Objective Assessment”. ………../….//………… ….\\….\ That’s the question that ATF is attempting to prosecute. The letter from BATFE, the support of a giant of the industry like Sig Sauer and their legal team added instant credibility to the SB Tactical brace and made the industry explode. Now, as long as the liberals and RINO’s remain in power, this will never happen. In the last few days, gun owners nationwide have flexed their muscles and made themselves heard loud and clear! Pistol Arm Brace Ban Coming from DOJ Tomorrow? An article popped up recently from Ammoland that alleges the ATF is singling out SB Tactical and their products. There are even accessories specifically designed as cheek rests for pistols, which are ATF-approved in form and function and put your face the correct distance for any normal rifle optic: https://www.thordsencustoms.com/ar-pistol/cheek-rest-kits.html. Instead of the legislature actually creating laws, they simply give authority to a giant government agency to interpret a really broad law and to enforce it as they please. When you examine many ATF regulations they are pretty arbitrary. )… ) ATF requested that the industry stop constantly sending things for approval. That foregrip issue is weird, and it’s already illegal to put a 90 degree grip on a pistol. It’s funny that people still think congress works for the voters. This is a massive problem with the entire bureaucratic state. No, Pistol Braces Are NOT Banned . A second class status amongst our own, just glad he never let us down…. Which is quite impossible. I realize ATF doesn’t have that power and this new Congress won’t, but I am a scientist and we have seen some uncontrolled experiments about the rationality of keeping certain NFA weapons on the list over the last decade. Dayton Police Chief Richard Biehl told reporters that the gunman had outfitted his legally purchased pistol with a drum magazine that could hold 100 rounds, and with a "pistol brace… It’s a guidance document, sort of an official announcement of ATF policy, but ATF policy is not law. I use two hands to shoot my CZ-P10 C. Does that make it an SBR?? You forget, to a bureaucrat, all bureaucracy is necessary. Is a pistol brace viable in your world or would you rather just stick with a rifle with a 16” barrel to avoid any potential issues in the future with yet another reversal of administrative policy? Sign in. Except for that time he banned bump-stocks (an unregulated un-serialized accessory) with an executive order. If I brace the wrong way wouId I be let out of jail like the dirtbags in NY and CA who actually misuse firearms? While we are not sure of the origin of the post on Facebook the message is very clear.
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