© 2005-2021 BAGGAGE RECLAIM. The Giver is one of the books you probably read as a kid, somewhere between late elementary or middle school and early high school, depending on … I thought Whatthewhat??? You cannot teach anyone anything – and if someone is just not morally or mentally in the same place – then you need to accept that and move on there is NO other choice. In my short experience with online dating, the guy on the phone and/or email was very different than the guy that showed up in person. He could have made it brief and said, “I’ll get back to you soon”. Like you, I’m finding peace with NC and slowly gaining ground in my battle to love myself. Apparently I had looked not-so-happy and not-so-refreshed in earlier meetings while I was still involved with the exMM. So that made things so much easier and it didn´t affect my self esteem because I wasn´t looking for his validation anymore. Wondering where to start with reducing? I am acutely aware that I over-gave in my previous relationships, and like you said, I ended up feeding on crumbs and felt devalued because he didn’t respond favorably or invest in doing things for me like I hoped he would. At 44 y.o. See my PAIN people /dudes… When is anyone going to do what they say they are to me, when? Perhaps we will connect again down the road. we have faith in you! So, when you stop overgiving you are left with your true self. I know, cos I did it at the beginnning, and had to stamp out this old behaviour. My advice is to start learning your own boundaries AND to learn when you are “giving” in order to “receive” something back. Your old AC can buy is own stinking circular saw! Didn’t the AC/EUMs get enough punches in that now, when we’re finally rid of their toxicity, we have to turn the pummeling on ourselves? You’ve helped me more than you know. I’m not sure how much you can know someone after emailing them and talking on the phone with them for a few hours. I can’t help but to comment that your post breaks my heart. Even a bit of empathy and compassion about estrangement, especially given 1) the pandemic and 2) this time of year which triggers anxiety, shame and loneliness for a lot of people, could go a long way. Okay. But you also don’t need to make out like you’re not ‘good enough’, nor do you need to burn up so much of your bandwidth comparing you to others. Not from food, not from men, not from your own love and respect. I have been NC only 90 days but I will NEVER look back now. Thanks, everyone. His needs/wants and my needs/wants were extremely different but I collapsed the needs/wants made assumptions and ended up bewildered when things went tits up. But each time a child opens a book, he pushes open the gate that separates him from Elsewhere. People who don’t have limits do not have boundaries, standards, or much self-esteem to work with. But, I can learn to SLOW DOWN and stop seeing potential in every man who shows up. So before you lock your keys in your car going out of your way, there’s an easier way to tell you’re a giver. I am still trying to sort out the mess, but I can’t ever get the time back. And if a man is talking to you about his girlfriend woes you are firmly in the friendzone and I suggest you act accordingly. That’s what took me a long time to understand: I didn’t have to keep giving to people who didn’t want nor deserve my kindness. I mean, I’ve read stuff from books and blogs etc but I doubt my strength in pulling away. Thanks Nat for saving me time and money I’d surely of given before I’d been aware of this site. “The worst part of holding the memories is not the pain. See how it unfolds. What else can a kind and generous woman who is “hungry for love” do to love herself? No questions asked. But it is also the world where choice has been taken away and reality distorted. EU men attract EU women and vice versa. Eek. How are we EVER going to SEE anything SOON enough like THAT? “Genius disregards the boundaries of propriety. You have needs too! or how i was the youngest. Would we truly want them, Learner, if the planets aligned and they decided to grace us with commitment ? So I hung in there for two years and kept giving, giving, and giving. as in he’s a dom and thinks you’re a sub? During the anxiety period (and thank you Nat and BR for talking me down from the ledge), I thought I KNEW him. Tinkerbell Oh come onnnnn !!! I thought, “Oh boy, this is great. As usual, amazing advice Nat! You wrote: “By persisting in giving what you think you need, you’re not really giving to him; you’re giving to you. That it was significant. Throughout my 12yr relationship this issue was the centre of every argument and believe me they were terrible. You know, that better than our current self that we aspire to and that may well be the source of self-criticism and disappointment, especially if, like me, you’re a recovering people-pleaser, perfectionist and overthinker. The good news is that in the past I’ve wasted years over giving to someone who didn’t show me basic respect. to stop seeing ourselves as less than. Stop feeling your heart hurt and the tears threatening to fall. Online dating has it’s challenges. meet him in public! It can even cross into you inadvertently attempting to guilt them into coughing up what they ‘owe’. Men way younger then me have more experience playing the field than myself – even a 15 year old the way they can go from girl to girl, I swear the boy I lost my virginity to as a teenager has much MORE experience then I ever will in certain areas, lol! Most commonly, people who give too much are suffering from low self-esteem, explains Alpert. Had I gotten angry sooner this phase would have passed sooner as well, and maybe I would have had a backbone when I needed one. Flush it and narrow your search criteria to ten miles. What other good qualities will I have?? I do not see any way to get over this I really am destroyed by things to NO return. I’ve been through this friends or not dilemma. People share as little as thirty seconds of their story with me and I can read their pattern and how the rest of the story will go. I have no idea. I make me. I am internet dating now and I try really hard to meet people right away, after a few emails and maybe one phone call. If someone ignores you from the very beginning, it’s not a sign that you should keep chasing and make him interested, it’s a sign for you to run, because he doesn’t appreciate your precious self. I do not want to give anyone the damn chance ever again for as long as I live.. so you overgave. There was one key difference between Joe and the people who were achieving the success he desired. Allow me to introduce myself: I’m Natalie Lue. I won’t have that hair-on-fire moment of truth as he is so done with me now that I’ve refused membership in his dysfunctional harem of damaged young girls. Some people will never understand that’s just how we are. It actually kept me hooked and kept me from leaving even after severe abuse. ” One day you realise that you are someone who gives too much in the wrong situations or to the wrong people and that you’re being mistaken for a doormat who doesn’t know when to fold and get the hell out of there.” Yes Natalie, I gave away my dignity in a vain attempt to achieve a relationship that never could have worked. If you’re giving and giving but not pushing for a resolution, that is your behaviour to change. It made me feel much better. He was always lavishing me with things and taking me on special trips, etc. In this case, does this mean that I have to overcome my fear (or phobia) of being without him to love myself? I can’t miss my past NONE of it or NONE of them. This has given me even more encouragement to keep going with NC. Or unusual. Not many men can feel sexual towards a mother figure. I’m glad we can see the humor in it. Don’t make their behaviour about you. I’m sorry you spent 6 years as an OW. What were the reasons? I think the fact that he told me if I can’t be in his country NOW its over. UPDATE: I just adopted a helpless baby animal again! so, if we treat ourselves the way we would treat others, as in with lots of giving, then we’ll be treating ourselves appropriately. If you really think based on a 2.5 hours talk with a stranger, that “you caught the big fish”, then you have a very big problem. I think the first step in loving yourself should be learning to be honest with Julia – don´t bother about the bloke for now. he keeps trying to contact you in lazy, meaningless, ways, but you haven’t taken any of his bait for a whole year. No matter HOW much I would like to feel okay again, to fall in love again NOW I’m totally convinced there will always be some “Red Flag” I am going to miss . Thirty seconds into the date, he tells me he’s moving away in the next couple of weeks. Anyway, now I am feeling very foolish and angry with myself and with him for not having left me alone if he was not ready for a “relationship”. “And here in this room, I re-experience the memories again and again it is how wisdom comes and how we shape our future.” – The Giver, 3. He will ride his bicycle to the river and leave the extra clothing in the bushes. the real saying goes, “do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” i’m turning this on its head: “do unto YOU as you would do unto others (because that’s really how you want them to do unto you).”. Does this person deserve it.? He may or may not contact you again but I dont think you should feel foolish for the things you did – if doing these things are normal for you (you do this for friends and family), this is who YOU are and you dont have to change. I had to read this article several times as it was as if Natalie had opened a door into my life and exposed my last three years of insanity. Even our giving has a limit and you have to set yours. tonight i went past the place he was playing (hes in a band)and the ow was there they were out front chatting he saw me and as i walked round corner i burst into tears the shock. I’d better let someone yell at me just even sh*t out.” Needless to say, when I got some self esteem and got real about life being, well, life everything got much better. And if we DON’T get our act together after we’ve been told not once, but twice…? Get rid of them out of our lives as quickly as possible, period. So even though you maybe feel out of control of things and frustrated by this feckin lockdown, do your best to love and take care of you anyway. Ladies, new theme song: “I Changed My Mind” by Keyshia Cole, “If you keep giving blindly because you’re focused on trying to fill up a void within you and to generate a tipping point, you do not get a chance to truly see what the other person is about nor do you truly get to see what their own capacity is to give.”. If he’s still acting like a rude and aloof @ss even after you’ve gotten to know him better, then you need to let this guy go because he’s obviously not in the mood to reciprocate feelings. Like all these dudes all get together in some club and plan this crap out on me, LOL! You hit this one out of the park LoveyDovey! I think I’ve cut out the middle man…giving to me directly now is much easier, assuming I know what I want and need! Even though you’ve been communicating for three weeks, you haven’t met him in person? Another point: Sometimes we as givers tend to forget that we are not really the norm. As I get older I’m panicked that time is running out. Sometimes we give so much and in return you get negative writings, incomprehensible attitudes and they don’t get the message.Love doesn’t turn back the same way. In my case, it’s probably my futile attempt to finally win my self-absorbed father’s love – from another self-absorbed guy! Learning To Trust Again: You've Got To 'Put Out' Some Trust & Then Adjust Accordingly. I’ve dusted myself off, forgave myself, let go (ouch) of the money owed. Exactly.. If he calls, be friendly and talk to him if you like. Not every guy that contacts you online is looking for a relationship despite what they may say on their profile. When I look back on events in my past where I’ve been in pain over someone’s shady carry-on or their treatment of me, in each of them, I discovered that I had limits and standards. Learner, we made a lucky escape. It’s ironic he actually ISN’T getting to know you. Like a lot of people I was raised in a family where my emotional needs weren’t met and how I was feeling was not considered important. After a (short) while you don´t mind anymore. It has nothing to do with being selfish, it is taking care of yourself. When you stop letting someone use you as a buffer against dealing with their feelings and *themselves*, you get to value yourself and be with someone else who will treat you like the special, worthwhile and valuable person that you are. Ummmm, yes, I now know him better than I want to, and *no thanks* I don’t need another fb account that I have to block him on!!! Now, I am feeling very angry and hurt that he could be so cold and ungrateful. Sometimes I meet a total stranger on the street, and we talk for 3, 4 or more hours. It appears that you are investing a lot of time and emotional energy into a non-relationship. However, there could be many reasons why he has not responded – he did just move, which takes a lot of time and energy. RUN RUN RUN like hell. Tbh, I actually thought about that while I was still in pursuit of him. I get that. I’ll never do that again. I’m not going anywhere. You are starved. Good call! My thoughts as well, right now I do not know IF I can feel again for any man.. Now I have NO idea what it would take for that.. Since I hadn’t heard from her since that night, I sent her a text an hour ago. I would be asking myself these questions if I were you. They were obviously men you never intended to attract in the first place. I’ve been moving along fine, however few days back he tried to contact me via fbk, wished me Happy Birthday and asked me if I wanted to catch up, instead I thanked him just like i would anyone and wished him well. I feel now that I am too good for him as he doesn’t know how to appreciate me the way that I am. You’re creating high levels of drama. Sometimes, I do have anxiety attacks and wish he would disappear in a puff of smoke so I don’t have to deal with it, but mostly I’m happy, and so is he. She replies back, “oh I forgot I’m still sick”. You did mention you’ve been communicating with for what…three weeks? I have the same problem! I wonder if this is what makes me the regular texter/happy initiator. Just try to do better in the future and so will I. He should be happy with YOU, not with what you do for him. LOL. I”m sure you all know what I thought of that! they KNOW. That’s how it works…basically if you’re constantly being put in the friend zone by a guy you’ve been intimate with on more than one occasion but can’t ever get to stay, that should be the gigantic red flag to you that he only see’s you as a FBG. When it ended out of the blue or rather when his daughter reached 18 there was lots of future faking and It’s only after reading BR that I have to face the fact that I busted my boundaries and now have to accept that I was having a fantasy relationship. By being too damn easy to go to for a shoulder to cry on – but to hell with me needing one in return that is how. In your last line you mention “relationship”? If you are only interested in giving and giving, and believe that being exploited is fundamental to male-female relationships then those men will pass you right by. Starting with YOU, perhaps? There is a ton of inherent dishonesty in an affair. At the moment, I’m only giving to me and my daughter. but then we start to accept reality as it is and to relax. So basically, they choose whether they want to MEET our expectations of what we expect of them…or they don’t. I’ve asked many over-givers why they continue to give in a situation that’s emotionally bankrupting them and where they’re barely able to sustain themselves. You are worth more.:-). I'm still obsessed with 90s music and am an eternal raver. Being the Good Girl/Good Guy thing is waaaay overrated. What a waste of time and energy on a loser who cared nothing about me. It’s not that you are not good enough for him, it’s him who’s not good enough for you. How are things?” She sent a nice breezy reply, mentioning that she was married and had just bought a house and been promoted. Prior to the date he sounded like a dream: recommended by a friend, an engineer, single, wife died 4 years ago… I thought, nice, Hope this guy measures up (I did NOT start making future plans). i pulled this, verbatim, out of a guy’s online profile: “So what am I looking for in a woman? (I could be totally wrong about that). We can control how we value ourselves and how WE choose to empower ourselves as women to be “Judger’s of A Man’s Character, Value and Worthiness”. I have a guy friend who buys me pies and cakes all the time because he knows I like them.