Scholars of family life tell us that the most important cause of the current decline in the well-being of children is the current weakening of marriage, because family instability decreases parental investment in children. Although a strong marriage is the ideal, some marriages unfortunately end in divorce. Search for other Counseling Services in Spokane Valley … I am currently “studying out in my mind” whether or not I should divorce my husband of 23 years and these podcasts were very helpful. However, this has been one of my favorite podcasts. Lds men spend about 4.1 hrs/month having private talks with their children, Non-lds spend 5.4. Some men have said that nothing shook their testimonies like divorce. This was a window into a world I am living in right now. John said that “I think we can all agree that the LDS Church CAN do family right” (emphasis added). There is a peek into my Mormon Story with divorce. “We can all agree that Mormonism does family right” (or something close to that). Their surprise at divorce can lead to a feeling of instability. Other services requiring financial assistance would require a referral from an LDS bishop. The book is a collection of sociological studies of the Latter Saint population as compared with the general population and other religious groups. I have to emphatically disagree. I can sometimes get through to them with some useful pieces, but it’s hard. A cancellation of a temple sealing should not be called a divorce. It’s painful, and deeply embarrassing. I’ve reconnected with my family as I’ve gone inactive from the church, and we have our issues as all families do, and even though we are not united in faith or by covenants, we are united in our love for one another! One part I would like to comment on is where john says ‘I don’t think there is anybody who would say Mormonism gets family wrong for the most part’ then goes on to list several elements where Mormonism get’s family wrong. Listen to Family Support Group Meeting Podcasts. Not sure I wanted to be the fly on that wall…. Marriage is relevant in every life, and family life is the basis of our existence. These findings soon taught me that there needs to be more discussion about divorce in the LDS … He has reason to feel deceived and lied to, and it was all done trying to be for his benefit, and she paid the price for her “sin” in that every day (but not every minute). Eligibility: Unwed parents may come to the agency without a referral. Divorce is traumatic: those involved can experience feelings of shock, denial, confusion, depression, and anger, as well as physical symptoms such as disrupted sleep and eating patterns. They gave me a tremendous perspective on how it effects each member of the family. I agree with many of the comments above, Mormons do family well, but not perfect! What was so devasting about the divorce was the my FIL was a seminary teacher, upon separation he was fired. That was extremely awkward to listen to. Marital Happiness and Unhappiness. They need the healing power and hope that come from the Atonement of Jesus Christ. In my own family with two married parents I’m not so sure we could be so honest and naked with one another about our lives, let alone to be recorded discussing tough issues. My most tender confusion with my experience actually delves into the question of repentance and acceptance. All marriages take work, but underneath all the grind and trial, the couples should enjoy each other. I do want to take issue with one thing John Dehlin said as he was moderating this panel. How does firing seminary teachers reflect on the LDS Church? Even so, I can’t begin to tell you how helpful this has been for me. In this three-part episode, long-time listener Glenn brings on his divorced parents and fellow siblings to discuss their family’s divorce from an LDS perspective. Is what you did something you would recommend? However, the term divorce … Another podcast not to be found anywhere else……..thanks, John. My heart goes out to each and every family member. They knew their grandparents were divorced, of course, but never really knew anything about it. It seems to me, the one area the Church get’s families right (encouraging time together etc) is something people already know and do without needing be told, yet is hindered by Church activity. My parents divorced when I was 11. Relationships are put through every test. This is amazing. To consider that the vital aspects of a family ceases to be because a legal document declares the end of a legal “marriage,” or a letter from a particular department at LDS church headquarters declares a cancelation of sealing, is absurd in the extreme. Maybe John can get Al and Tipper on next to describe what it’s like after forty years. Glenn and family – thank you. I wish with all of my heart that my divorced and remarried (to each other) parents would be as willing to discuss the elephants in our room. Leaving was the right choice at the time and the years since have confirmed that decision. (pressure to get married, encouraging marriage at too young an age, pressure of callings etc.). As for how right (or wrong) the Church gets families, I wont try to quantify, but after having been out for a number of years, I think the affects of having left have been overwhelmingly positive. Established in 1919, it has more than 60 office locations throughout the … My inlaws divorced after 25 years of marriage. So, my kudos and thanks to all of them. I loved it for revealing how to handle issues of when the ideal pattern was followed, reality hit and struggle for reconciliation back to the pattern. Yet, I earnestly desire to be in a healthy, happy relationship like the mom and dad here found with their current spouses. LDS Links and Resources. Thanks. Clear on-going sexual abuse was at the basis of the break-up in the family. What he thought he had, but never really did. I’m all over the place with this post. They likely don’t know what to do or say. A legal divorce does not affect, change, or remove a temple marriage/sealing in any way. that was the same thing my comment was about! A church that intentionally divides families by castigating heretic or apostate members of your family as lesser people is not a family-friendly church. I’ll even concede that the CHurch can be intrusive at times. Though his poor me behavior when his kids disagreed with him about things was off putting. Well, THAT was akward. I think the reason for the absence of these teaching is because the Brethren fear that it will open the gates wider for even more divorces to occur. This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Latter Day Saints (LDS) couples marry for time and for eternity. thank you. Men tend to be action oriented, so they may be less inclined to seek counseling and instead bury their feelings by working long hours or immersing themselves in a hobby. The only similarity between the situations is divorce. Obviously their encouraging of families to be close and value each other is positive, but I believe it to be outweighed by their unhealthy family values. Learn how your comment data is processed. And that is not an easy row to hoe and sometimes puts the principals at greater risk in losing their salvation than had they learned to cope (LOVE) and “endure to the end.”. Thank you so much. Did it make a difference for good or bad? Kudos to all the family for putting this out for all of us to learn from. Yet continuing Church activity exposes us to correct principles and surrounds us with caring people. I look forward to part III, I admire the openness of this family. Gramps answers questions about divorce including when it is okay to start dating, divorced bishops, receiving Jesus’ help, temple divorces and more. When children spend most of their time with their mother, it is easy for the father to feel like he has become a visitor to his own children. In the eternities of the highest heaven there will be only those who can manifest a type of perfect love within a state of a type of perfect righteousness that is hard for many of us to fathom while we “look through a glass darkly.” In the societies of the gods having had a divorce or specific cancellation of sealing won’t mean a hill of beans, HOWEVER, the malevolent, selfish, sinful and other contemptible agendas or reasons for that divorce, and if wasn’t eventually reconciled may have mighty implications and residual effects for some members of that family. I have 3 teenagers, including a 19 year old son who is leaving on a mission soon. Just wonderful. This was a great program. Were the Church to have a different approach towards families and divorce they wouldn’t need to maintain this dissonance. I thought I believed in repentance and was on the surface please to see my father finding acceptance, but I also found it bitingly odd that my father had such an easier time starting afresh in the church community than my mother. What message did this send to the youth who come from divorced families? At the very least I hope it is entertaining. A Burden No Longer to Carry. I currently stay in the marriage because I do not want to devastate my children. 4 We know that children raised in a single-parent home after divorce … After hearing the dad talk, I went to my wife and said “I’m sorry I am a man.” I then told her to give me a list (we’ve been happily married–at least pretend happily– 35 years) of things she would like me to work on. Deeply insightful and thoughtful people. Thank you for that. The church doesn’t do part member families well; being the only convert in my family, I was often encouraged to move and leave my family if they would not convert to the church because their influence would not be good on me. I enjoyed it and have shared it with my kids (13, 9, 6) and they enjoyed it, too. It really demonstrated the necessity of picking the right spouse the first time around. Commenting on the Mormon approach to families, I would qualify John’s remark a little: “Mormons often get the theory behind heterosexual, monogamous couples with traditional expectations right.” We preach a lifestyle that suits certain good, simple people really well; we do not always practice what we preach. It sets up many families to fail, not succeed. Children are most likely to adjust successfully to parental divorce when their mother and father are willing to put the happiness and stability of children ahead of their own hurt feelings. Find 3 listings related to Lds Family Services in Los Angeles on YP.com. The tone began fairly uncomfortably and had uncomfortable moments, but that raw authenticity of family dynamics was what made it so enjoyable. Principles to Change Videos. I took a couple things away from listening, “I don’t want to hurt, but can not be silent!” This is a great way to put it, you don’t want to intentionally hurt anyone, especially a member of your family, but you can’t sacrifice yourself to avoid the hurt! It is similar in some ways to legal divorce because a prior marriage is annulled. The only worthy comment by Dad was his very last comment. The fact that other people have had similar thoughts / reactions / questions of faith is comforting. Glenn & Family, On a spiritual and emotional level I feel we are more tolerant and loving with each other. However, “in the end,” i.e., after our sojourns on earth, do you really think that two people who were married “for time and eternity,” had children, but then ended up getting a divorce and a cancellation of sealing are going to be in the highest heaven together ***and not love each other*** notwithstanding what happened during the rigors, follies, etc, of earth life? So, when that quit working, and she started wanting things to be different, he just wanted everything to go back to to the way they were, and that just doesn’t work. It’s awkward and it’s life. I know I’m late to this, but I was deeply touched by the willingness of both of these parents to openly discuss their divorce and its repercussions. Whenever I would visit him he would often be praised an adored in his new ward. As far as he’s concerned, he did everything right, and it was her use of free agency that stole from him what he thought he should have. About Lds Family Services: LDS Family Services is located at 1100 W Jackson Rd in Carrollton, TX - Dallas County and is a business listed in the categories Marriage & Family Counselors, Counselors Marriage Family Child & Individual, Other Social Advocacy Organizations, Social Services, Nec, Social Service Organizations and Social & Human Services. I thought his not bad mouthing of her was admirable. The Mormon experience with divorce is broad and complex. Author: Goodman, Kristen L. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints officially disapproves of divorce but does permit both divorce … Divorce Divorce is a trial that affe cts the entire family. It’s been quite a difficult listen, because I can so relate to the people speaking, most painfully with your dad. They are now divorced. Where available, Family Services helps individuals overcome pornography use and other harmful behaviors, such as alcohol and drugs, through the Savior Jesus Christ and His Atonement. It is intrusive and divisive. Might I add other ways Mormonism get’s family wrong: Requiring women to covenant to obey their husbands, overly stigmatizing divorce, devaluing non-traditional families, particularly homosexual ones. And that, in my humble opinion, is a huge part of divorce. Counsel with your quorum president, bishop, or stake president and consider professional counseling, such as with LDS Family Services, if available. The lifestyle we preach is not the one-size-fits-all that church headquarters claims: it really only works well for those who are naturally suited to it (as many of us, including John, are). That healing power and that hope are there for them and also for their children.”. ... My family has had to deal with a lot of pain in recent years with a man that cheated multiple times on my sister. There must be communication, tenderness, trust, and fun. A person is saved in righteousness, which effectuates the sealing ***power*** and not whether or not he or she had a divorce or cancellation of a specific sealing. Discover your family history by exploring the world's largest family tree and genealogy archive. These differences are not huge, but meaningful. It is important sometimes to let someone help you work through these trials and help get your relationship where you want it … I am glad that this has worked out for everyone concerned. Divine Attributes of Jesus Christ: Meek and Humble, Catching the Vision: All Missions Bring Souls to Christ, Lighting Our Children’s Path with Gospel Standards, Teaching Gospel Standards: One Family’s Experience, The Proclamation on the Family: Transcending the Cultural Confusion, Josephine Booth: Sister Missionary to Scotland, Oral Family History Fades in Just Three Generations, He Taught Me the Heavenly Order of Eternity, “Latter-day Saint Men and Divorce,” Ensign, August 2015, 58–61. Fortunately, most former spouses learn to cooperate for the benefit of their children. Perhaps no single issue provokes power struggles more than child custody. Such an approach was expressed by this man I counseled: “I still have a hard time grasping the concept that I’m a divorced man, but I am. Regular interaction with your children should remain a high priority, regardless of distance or remarriage. Great podcast. Required fields are marked *. Now, that said, I understand that some “secondary principles” of the LDS Church can add burdens to a family and a marriage (service and tithing are two examples). Tucked in the end notes of one chapter are the results of a study, which isn’t mentioned within the text. … Remember, heaven is filled with those who have this in common: They are forgiven. I loved Mom’s comment on how she views Testing, as a scientific experiment! To find out more about how Latter-day Saints … Given how central the family is in Church doctrine, divorce in the Latter-day Saint community is a sensitive and complicated issue. This may make him feel powerless and controlled by the system. And he doesn’t understand what went wrong or why. I’m two thirds through the Podcast and really enjoying it. Nope. I don’t really understand the drive that made me want to do this and I am still in a bit of shock that my parents agreed — it’s cuz they love us and wanted to show that love. Regardless of who was at greater fault in your divorce, healing won’t come until there is repentance and forgiveness. I’ve only had the chance to listen to the first episode. Divorce happens because of sin, or apostasy from the church. … All rights reserved. She couldn’t pretend anymore. Whether you are religious or not, I don’t think that you can argue that the teachings of Jesus (I call these the “primary principles” of the LDS Church) wouldn’t be beneficial within the family or marriage environment. Divorce is a reconstruction of a broken heart and life. Probably should do it sometime soon. He was accepted in his new ward and apparently well-respected. Divorced men are welcome in the Church in the same manner as married men. Family Services provides a variety of services aimed towards helping families overcome specific challenges. And by the way, if anyone is curious to hear the muppet sing, I have a rainbow video on my blog. The ugly dragon of divorce … CLICK HERE FOR OUR LATEST PODCASTS Donate, John Dehlin May 27, 2010 Marriage & Family 34 Comments. I see them as individuals sharing with us, a perplexing condition now seen fairly often. My parents divorced after 22 yrs of marriage with some of the same threads – marriage looked good on paper, both “strong” in the church, seemed affectionate toward each other, dad surprised by mom’s “sudden” realization that she has been miserable. Couples Therapy. Family Services maintains a section on Adoption.com of adoptive couples. My father, the abuser, and my mother, the protector and victim, had what I would call unjust rewards for their behavior. Other Videos. Men are less inclined to share their feelings, so they can be less likely to learn from their experience. Articles Divorce Divorce – Elder Dallin H. Oaks Hope and Healing after Divorce Latter-day Saint Men and Divorce – By S. Brent Scharman Retired Counselor, LDS Family Services I loved how honest and loving you were towards each other! Because of financial concerns and the blow to their ego, some men experience challenges like depression, weight gain, experimenting with alcohol, and becoming less active in the Church. There is no doubt that divorce is devastating, even for couples who have irreconcilable differences and for whom divorce is inevitable; but as an LDS family counselor, I know that divorce is especially devastating for children. I plan to do a show with John about that sometime. If you are divorced, here are some ways to stay close to your children and strong in the gospel. They recover and move forward with their lives. On a temporal level we have had more time and money and far less stress and tension. Service: To provide social services to community members in their area and to provide services to unwed parents. When a divorce occurs in a family, and especially when there is offspring, this family never ends, it is just rearranged in a different way. Thank you for giving me so much to think about. So what happened with these lists? LDS Family Services is a private, nonprofit organization that provides a range of birth parent and adoption services. This episode irritated me to no end. Counseling Services Family Services provides short-term professional counseling for individuals, couples, and families. What was on them? Fees: $70 per hour…no charge for birth parent services A question of geography with dad in California and mom in Utah? When a divorce occurs in a family, and especially when there is offspring, this family never ends, it is just rearranged in a different way. I think this same statement can be made for any Christian church. Sorry, John, the church does not “do families” well. Dallin H. Oaks, “Divorce,” Ensign, May 2007, 70. Elder Dallin H. Oaks of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles said, “There are many good Church members who have been divorced” and reiterated that “unless a divorced member has committed serious transgressions, he or she can become eligible for a temple recommend under the same worthiness standards that apply to other members.”3, Some men say that although they would never want to go through such an experience again, they have learned from it. I find myself wondering how much damage has been done overall by the words of a very good man, president Kimball, who indicated that any two people could make a good marriage if they tried hard enough. Individual Stories of Hope. Lds mothers spend 11.6 hrs/month non-lds 11.1. The sibs are excellent examples of forgiveness for sure. Those affected by divorce can receive strength and comfort from the Lord. Moving in the Right Direction. Thanks for putting it together. A church that demands that you freely give 5, 10, 20 or even more hours per week to a “calling,” which prevents you from spending time with your family is not a family-friendly church. Here’s the truth … Many people who seriously practice a traditional religious faith – be it Christian or other – have a divorce … Paul I appreciate what you said and how you said it ………It puts a whole different aspect on my future divorce. Groups to assist spouses and other family … This particular podcast illustrates how the Church’s over emphasis on particular family forms can be harmful to those who aren’t able to fit the mold. And everybody had to deal with the wreckage that they just couldn’t keep from falling all over everybody. It was fascinating to hear a family re-process through what happened to them (individually and collectively) through a divorce process. He accepts, theoretically, that he could have done better, but honestly doesn’t know what. I now have my own small family of three and find myself in a whole new area of coming to grips with my experience. My listening cycle is quite a bit behind, and I’m just in the middle of the set right now. Glenn, I admire your candor and the courage it took for your family to come together in such an open forum. This has been one of the more unusual Mormon Stories podcast, in my opinion. A church that actively encourages young people who are not emotionally, financially, or otherwise ready to get married to not only get married, but “not delay” in starting a family is not family-friendly. Articulate, thoughtful, honest people, each and every one. To consider that the vital aspects of a family ceases to be because a legal document declares the end of a legal “marriage,” or a letter from a particular department at LDS … In fact, I would be willing to bet that the reasons that LDS marriage ends correlates very closely with why any other marriage ends.